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Thanks for responding Mike. I know the rule-of-thumb that all the winch sales people use. I will not be driving through 2′ of mud or climbing over rocks like some off road enthusiasts take on just because the have a winch to pull them out. I am not going to be crazy and go where I know I shouldn’t. My wife and I like the solitude and we don’t typically travel with anyone else so my thoughts about a winch is just an insurance in case we get stuck and no one else is around to help. My question was has anyone used a 12K winch without issues? The 12K winches are available with synthetic rope which saves a lot of weight. With the bumper and a heavy winch on the front end will it affect the handling of the truck.
Brent,
Having owned and used 6 or 7 winches on all kinds of rigs over my lifetime, I would say the intended use has a lot to do with the size of winch. For a straight pull, synth rope is fine if you have a meticulously smoothed and burr free fairlead, and it’s a straight line pull. Unfortunately, this is not a position you can depend on. My neighbor was pulling a tree down at an angle and his synth rope got tangled up and snapped. Not a good outcome. Lightweight though.
You can use a 12K winch on your truck with these caveats:
1. Check the duty cycle. It must be a very high percent to pull your truck. My favorite winch of all time was my Warn 8274 rated at only 8K pounds. But that pound rating did not tell the whole story. The 8274 was the fastest line speed of all the winches that I’ve ever seen, including my old PTO factory winch on my 1966 Toyota Land Cruiser. You could use the transmission gears to change the line speed. Going through the gears while winching…what a concept.
2. Get the longest cable you can because with an under rated winch you are going to want to use a snatch block to almost double the pulling power while halving the line speed. Most higher pound rated winches have shorter cables because the the cables are thicker. Most higher rated winches get that high rating by gearing down to the 300:1 or higher range. The 8274 (weighs 125 pounds with carrier) had 150 feet of 5/16’s” or 3/8’s” wire rope. My Warn 15K winch (weighs 160 pounds with carrier) has 90 feet of 7/16’s or 1/2″ wire rope. But i don’t need to use a snatch block on the 15K. If you are really good, you could use an 8K rated winch to do the chores you need to have done, but you would be working right on the edge.
3. You may be looking at the China Freight 12K winch, but from personal reports, I don’t have a lot of faith in them. What’s the woe? Small bearings for the load. On one I had originally on my Dodge pickup, the entire end bearing cap and support structure first deformed and broke, bound up, and failed. Yes, I was overworking it and pulling at too sharp an angle. Duty cycle too low. It will melt into one piece, no moving parts if used too long at a time, or in trying to move too heavy an object. Why is that? The amp draw. Even my old 8274 would draw an unbelievable 300 amps at dead stall. That’s a lot of heat, and a lot for your alternator and batteries to keep up with.
4. The other aspect to consider is the carrier. Be sure the thing that holds your winch is up to the task. I pulled a brand new front Warn 8K winch and Warn winch carrier/bumper completely off my 1970 FJ-55 after using it about 20 times in a row to get downhill through 4 feet of snow. It’s a long story, but seems kind of funny now many years later watching that whole front end catapult forward about 10 feet.
5. If I were to get an under rated winch on a rig just to have some half-way insurance and piece of mind, I would compare the weight, wire rope length, attachment security, duty cycle, and user reviews before making a final choice.
6. Then there is, “which end do I put it on?” I had an old jeeping buddie who had an 8K winch in front and a 6K winch on the rear. Why the discrepancy? Pulling yourself out backward takes less ‘oomph’ than pulling forward further into the obstacle. Oh no, another choice?
7. You will use a winch ten times to winch someone else out of a jam for every one time you will need to use it for yourself.
8. The most important decision is whether you really need a winch or not. Mine was easy since I use winches to pull trees down; drag logs or boulders around and get myself through many feet of snow. Another use would be during loss of traction, as in sand, mud, or snow.
9. If you do decide to get a winch, do get all the ancillary parts: snatch block that fits your wire rope. Tree saver. Cat Choker. 30K pound, 4 inch, 20-30 foot tow strap with loops on both ends. A few different sized ‘D’ rings. One very large hook with clevis. This should guarantee that you will never, ever have to use any of it. But in your mind, it will be there.
regards, as always, jefe2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
Brent, then there’s the other mystery element: do you go looking for trouble/the edge? Early on, I loved the smell of ozone when all those driven wheels were churning away, digging eventually to rest on the frame. There is just something therapeutic about it. If you have never been a hard core 4 wheeler, then i suspect you won’t need a winch. Just have a plan B when you start to begin to commence to loose it. For a TC, a minimum would be a 1-foot square ‘jack board’ and a 12 ton hydraulic jack that will fit under the axle on the side that has a flat tire. A farm jack is just about useless on a TC as you can only lift the front end. I would say I’ve used a winch at least 500 times in my time. One Warn 8000 I had on my Land Cruiser FJ-55 was used over 300 times, by design, and that tiny bronze spur gear that ran the big bull gear finally had no teeth. It never got hot and always had a surplus of duty cycle. That was one tough winch. The Chinese winches…not so much.
2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
When I traded in the old TJ on a RAM 3500, the M8000 winch stayed with me.
Years ago I did a lot of club 4-wheeling in SoCal. Everyone had the M8000 – except me. My Samurai was a hopeless wincher, but a fine winchee.
When I did get around to a “real” Jeep, the first accessory was an M8000. (The second and last was Duratrac tires.) That winch pulled several big trucks out of iced over creek fords, though tire chains on the Jeep, and strapping it to trees were sometimes required. And even though I retired up here to the frozen north and had no intention of actually getting stuck, it got used for self-recovery twice. Yep, right through that same ice.
So, will the M8000 work on the one-ton? For me, yes. I carry snatch blocks and straps and cables and logging chains and am pretty sure I can rig up whatever’s necessary to get unstuck with it. I’d rather have a 1200 or bigger winch, but the Warn M8000 is it until it breaks or something. Like that’s gonna happen.
My F-350 has a Warn 12K winch on it and I am very happy with it and the service requirements I put it through. Mostly winch trees out of the way, pulling stumps and assisting others, I have only used it once in 9 years to pull myself out of the mud. I also had an old 92 – F-250 with a Warn 8274 on it and it was such a great winch, I had to keep it. That winch is bolted on a tray that can be inserted into a rear tow receiver if I was ever to REALLY get into the poop. So far it hasn’t been necessary. Guess I must be gettin old…….:-)
I will not be driving through 2′ of mud or climbing over rocks like some off road enthusiasts take on just because the have a winch to pull them out.
I concur with Mike. If we remove the winching other things out of the equation (tress etc), and you are looking solely at stuck vehicle recovery, then you don’t actually need to be doing anything too sketchy to get right up there in terms of how much winch power you need.
Most are surprised with winch requirements in relation to how stuck you are.
Mired up to the tires can require a winch pull of total vehicle weight. Mired to the wheels can be 2 x vehicle weight, mired to the body 3 x vehicle weight.
Then you have to add in any grade. A 15% grade would add an extra 25% weight for example.
A 12,000lb camper mired tire deep is going to need a maxed out 12,000 winch (using a full line – each spool loses around 10% winch capacity I think) to pull it out. Any worse than that will require a solid anchor point with a snatch block back to the vehicle.
If you can convince yourself that situation is the worst you will come across, and you have a 12,000lb camper, then a 12,000 winch, winch extension and a snatch block might suffice. A snatch block giving you half the line but a 2x mechanical advantage.
I think a 10,000lb and up full-size truck and camper warrants the biggest light truck / off road winch, something like the Warn 16.5
2007 Dodge 3500
[5.9 Cummins, Stick Shift] + [XPCamper V1E]I don’t understand- if you’re willing to have a 12,000lb winch, why not a 15,000 or 16,000 lb winch?
Agreed. Other than maybe a little weight and a few extra bucks it’s better to go all in.
2007 Dodge 3500
[5.9 Cummins, Stick Shift] + [XPCamper V1E]
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