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I’m sure this topic has been gone over multiple times but I’m thinking that with all the stuff I do with my 2018 F-350 CC LB SRW 4×4 truck that my requirements might be a little different than many of the truck camper guys out there. I get the usual body roll with my Artic Fox 990 on board but I do a lot of different stuff with the camper as well as without the camper. We do some off road driving with the camper which involves mandatory 4WD as well as very rough and uneven terrain at times. This means big bumps as well as uneven side to side terrain. When on road we sometimes tow about 3000 lbs which involves adding a hitch extension of about 40”. When not in camper mode this is a full blown work truck with a 2000 lb Fleetwest Load N Go toolbox with ladder racks and a 20’ 10,000 lb enclosed work trailer in tow. I’m looking to stabilize this truck. It didn’t come with a rear sway bar, I’m guessing that has something to do with the FX4 off road package, so I’m wondering if a Big Wig sway bar might not be the best solution for me since I do so many different things with this truck. Because of that I’m wondering if the Roadmaster Active suspension system might be a better fit for me. My thoughts are that maybe the RoadMaster system might tackle all those different conditions with help vs a sway bar that would probably Accel at sway control but not be a good choice for all my other driving conditions. Cane I get some feedback from you pro’s on here concerting that. Which would be the best solution, The Roadmaster Active Suspension or the Hellwig Big Wig sway bar, for my uses of this truck?
Thanks for your time and input.
BillI’m no expert by any means but from my understanding of the two systems, they are very different from each other and do different things. The Active suspension stiffens and controls spring movement and reaction which has benefits of better load control and compliance. The sway bar mainly controls lean and side to side sway on rough roads and high speed cornering by transfer load from the loaded side to the unloaded side. I don’t think the active suspension does that. I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t have both. If I’m way off base here, you can call me on it and you won’t get an argument.
Neil & Yoly
2016 Ram 2500HD Tradesman, 2WD Crew Cab, 6.4L Hemi
2018 Travel Lite 840 SBRX
Honda EU2000iBill,
Many of us TC types have gone through the suspension ballet to try to contain the load…a load which is typically just beyond the factory rated load for the truck. With your perimeters, I think a good, thick anti-sway bar is the ticket with the 990, if you are happy with the loaded suspension characteristic as is, especially if it has stuff on the roof like air conditioning. If you are doing days worth of bumpy, off camber trail driving, just disconnect one side of the anti-sway bar and zip tie it up to the bar; and drop the tire pressure down to 32-35 pounds. This suspension freeing move and pressure drop is from the hard core jeep days and allows your tires to be part of the suspension. Great on miles of washboard.
But let’s find out actually what the anti-sway bar does. It tries to keep the axle parallel to the frame of the truck by resisting any off camberness on a graduated scale. That’s why any car or truck with anti-sway bars actually have lots of jerking sway when obliquely hitting a dip, driveway, or hole. It’s trying like mad to keep the axle parallel. On pavement and in curves are where it shines with any top heavy or just heavy load.
Another, more complicated procedure is to find a used set of upper overload leaf springs to add to your rig. The holes in the frame are there. I took this to ridiculous heights by adding one 2000 pound overload spring in the main pack and 3 upper secondary (overload) leaf springs up top and Stable Loads to have 8 leaves per side on the rear axle. The 3 only come into play with at least 2500 pounds in the bed. I cannot recommend air bags of any sort unless it is a factory installed air-ride suspension with a lot of dampening. I have not heard great things about air-ride suspensions and heavy truck campers. Why don’t I like the bags and coil springs for an off road TC? In a word: recoil.
They exacerbate the pitching, sway, and opposing reaction. Dumb old leaf springs simply take the hit with a whimper and say, “Duh, what happened?” There is a lot of friction with leaf springs which helps mollify the rough roads. Dialing in your rig’s suspension can be a painstaking and lengthy process with lots of variables. You want the suspension to take the load and keep the sway down, but be supple and smooth when you have nothing in the bed. That’s a very narrow breach.
To see the end result of many years of experimenting with my suspension, watch this short vid going up the ‘Diablo Drop Off’, a sand hill in Anza in a 10K pound truck camper with 6000 pounds on the rear axle. Tire pressure 20 pounds, the lowest i’ll go on blow sand. After watching this vid, i saw the need for another set of adjustable shocks on the rear axle.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfj5y93wsd7vfkw/jefe%20does%20sand%20hill%20at%20dry%20wash%20of%20the%20devil%20Anza.m4v?dl=02020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
Bill, just another issue. My anti-sway bar is a wimpy factory job, which came with the factory Camper Package, about 13mm across, certainly not in the league with the BigWig. But this has certain advantages which only came to light after I replaced all the worn out factory anti-sway hardware a couple years ago. I don’t have a lot of sway, with or without the anti-sway bar connected. My loaded weight, at it’s heaviest, with heavy stuff down low is around 3k pounds. The factory load max with the camper package is around 2800 pounds; which doesn’t include all the suspension upgrades. While the worn out parts were useless, i tried to dial in the whole suspension picture, which included all those leaves. Once replacements arrived, the sway ‘over-control’ with the camper on was down only a little bit, which is actually what I had hoped. It’s a balancing act with a lot of leaves and a little anti-sway. This was the equalibrium i was hoping for and received.
2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
You know, what I always hate about suspension issues is it seems like we are simply guessing and throwing parts at things hoping to get it right.
We don’t have much sway with the NorthStar on our F350, but the porpoising is brutal when the roadway has joints. At times it feels like it will literally tear the truck apart. I have upgraded the rear shocks and replaced the stock bump stops with Sumo springs, which helped some, but it is still pretty bad. And when running empty I have to air the tires way down or the ride is brutal.
My next thought is replace the front shocks, then I also wonder if I should add spacers on top of the rear overloads as they don’t hit the blocks, even with the camper loaded, although they do when we are hauling our fifth wheel, but it isn’t much better then. Back of the camper looks like it is on a pogo stick.
The rule of thumb for fifth wheels when porpoising is to increase weight over the pin, but with a truck camper, once it is loaded, it’s loaded and I know from my scale weights our truck camper adds very little weight to the front axle.
I hate just guessing at fixes. Quite a conundrum! 🙂
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCArd,
I hear you. The common fix for TC rear suspension is adding some kind of air bags or air shocks and a mongo anti sway bar, but I”m thinking it also adds a few more undesirable traits to the ride.
You are right thinking we are just experimenting to get the right tone. I’ve been into working jeep suspensions for decades, doing about a dozen SOA’s and ‘working’ the spring packs to have the most flex and still support the load. Some of that experience does translate to a heavily loaded pickup. My journey to suspension nirvana has been one long experiment, with lots of lessons learned. The fact is, my RAM, now without the camper on for the first time in 5 years, rides terribly, even with the Rancho 9k’s on the wimpiest setting and the secondaries unengaged. But I have full tire pressure; and nothing in the bed. Over time, i’ve moved the suspension more toward heavy off road use with the camper on and away from the empty road warrior. It’s really a choice.
The best, all-purpose rear suspension with a camper on and off is still the upper overloads or secondary leaf springs with adjusted Stable Loads because they only come into play when you have a load.This is a close as you come to having it both ways.
jefe2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
I have a set of Ranchos coming Sunday and my thinking is to next get rid of the plow front springs that came on the truck and go back to stock springs. Given how little weight my front end is carrying, even with a genny off the front bumper, those steps should help with the ride when empty and reduce porpoising when loaded. My next step would be to add something to engage the upper overloads when loaded as they are not at present. I intend to make the upper spacer as it looks to me like it is very basic. That should add a little sway control and I don’t need much. 🙂
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCSteve, that may work with stock springs. With a diesel (which you don’t have) there is about 4K pounds + on the front axle. In your case snow plow springs ARE way overkill. On the other hand, I’ve got the opposite woe. Cummins power and about 275 pounds of winch, winch carrier, brush guard, and radiator saver. Plus the NV-5600, cast iron case 6-speed manual that weighs in at a boat anchor 360 pounds without bell housing. I’m happy to have 3″ lift pucks and snow plow springs up front plus aftermarket control arms.
I have a theory that if you have pliable, lower load limit coils up front you get less twisting of the frame when you get the axles all twisted up and a better ride.
Another route to take with the RAM front end is to go with the longer control arms that attach to the frame rails. Reports are that this change allows for a better, more supple ride out of the front end and much easier steering and braking.2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
I have had both.
The Roadmaster was on a half ton truck and was used for towing a trailer. It was an absolutely excellent choice and when I had not trailer attached the Roadmaster still improved handling. As you know, the more pressure on the Roadmaster the more it works, less pressure, less work. Easy to install too.
I use the Big Wig on my Ram 3500. The BigWig is not bad off road to be honest. I have taken it through some fairly gnarly stuff in Utah with a loaded truck and camper. Strangely, the main issue I have with it is when going over bumps like a speed bump off centre, the swaybar holds the truck in place so it rocks quite a lot. I never notice that issue off road however.
The Roadmaster does what it says on the tin. Handling improved loaded and unloaded. It did reduce some roll but will not reduce as much roll as the Hellwig. The Hellwig will not make much difference to the straight-up ride like the Roadmaster does though.
The Roadmaster is effectively extra leaf springs. Less when you don’t need it, more when you do. I am full time in my camper and do a fair bit of off-road so I went to Deaver Springs and had my leaf packs rebuilt to suit the full-time camper weight.
I am considering removing my rear swaybar to see what happens. (I had removed my front once for mechanical issues and that was awful!). If I don’t notice too much extra sway I may just leave it off for a better ride on the bumpy stuff.
Not sure if that helps you.
2007 Dodge 3500
[5.9 Cummins, Stick Shift] + [XPCamper V1E]Steve,
I went the opposite way visa vie the front springs on our ’15 f-350 diesel CCLB. With the camper on, not even totally fully loaded, we were at about 5150 lb on the front axle. I have adding about 260 lb of bumper and winch to that. I replaced the 5600 lb springs with 6000 lb springs. The 5600s are available if you have any interest. I’m in UT.Our used XLT did not have a rear sway bar. I installed a Helwig sway bar. It has 3 different locations on the the bar strut that attaches to the frame. I tried the lightest setting first and then went with the highest betting. Made a huge difference on the road. It’s stiff as hell on the bumpy stuff. I have to creep in low range. hav en’t been out that I can disconnect one end of the bar, but we may try that.
Steve,
I went the opposite way visa vie the front springs on our ’15 f-350 diesel CCLB. With the camper on, not even totally fully loaded, we were at about 5150 lb on the front axle. I have adding about 260 lb of bumper and winch to that. I replaced the 5600 lb springs with 6000 lb springs. The 5600s are available if you have any interest. I’m in UT.
Our used XLT did not have a rear sway bar. I installed a Helwig sway bar. It has 3 different locations on the the bar strut that attaches to the frame. I tried the lightest setting first and then went with the highest betting. Made a huge difference on the road. It’s stiff as hell on the bumpy stuff. I have to creep in low range. hav en’t been out that I can disconnect one end of the bar, but we may try that.A lot of variables for sure. You also have that “oil burner” up front compared to my weinie gasser. Before I go further I want to CAT scale mine again with the new camper. I know the truck weight and what it was with the Hallmark, but not with our Northstar. I am also debating fabbing something up comparable to the ones Torklift makes for the upper overload springs. From searching the Internet I see were there are quite a few different ways folks are doing that.
My current project is fabbing something to hold a 2 gallon Rotopax on our ladder. It’s always something. I wonder if anyone runs as it comes from the dealer. 🙂
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCSteve,
I went the opposite way visa vie the front springs on our ’15 f-350 diesel CCLB. With the camper on, not even totally fully loaded, we were at about 5150 lb on the front axle. I have adding about 260 lb of bumper and winch to that. I replaced the 5600 lb springs with 6000 lb springs. The 5600s are available if you have any interest. I’m in UT.
Our used XLT did not have a rear sway bar. I installed a Helwig sway bar. It has 3 different locations on the the bar strut that attaches to the frame. I tried the lightest setting first and then went with the highest betting. Made a huge difference on the road. It’s stiff as hell on the bumpy stuff. I have to creep in low range. hav en’t been out that I can disconnect one end of the bar, but we may try that.Did you do your own coils? I haven’t done coils for years, although it looks pretty straightforward on YouTube.
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCIMO, Ford should put 6000# springs as a standard spring on “oil burner” F-350. Specially with a CC. Before the swap, the axle would hit the bump stops on the smallest bump. Honestly, I don’t feel much difference otherwise. Hope I don’t regret not putting on 6500# springs.
I’d like to see what you come up with for the Rotopax mount. Thinking of doing something similar.
I did not do the spring swap myself. I had total knee replacement a little over a year ago and my days of kneeling on my right knee are over. Somehow, that got left out of the wonders of knee replacement the surgeon waxed on about before I had it done.:) Plus, it was winter and the truck won’t fit in the garage. It was $140 labor to have it done.
Aye Yai Yai…
Now you have me concerned… I have had the Roadmasters for several years and to their credit, they work fine with the weight of the camper. However, I am still a working bloke so the camper is only on the truck a handful of times of year. The truck is my driver and when empty, the Roadmasters cause it to ride like an old buckboard. Historically I have not been a fan of air bags either, but recently I have taken interest in the Helwig Big Wig Air Bags (much larger than anything I have found on the market). Helwig’s tech department recommended the Big Wig Sway Bar in conjunction with the air bags to stabilize the “wash” (I believe that is the term he used). So both just arrived and are waiting installation next week over the holiday. Vacation in the mountains of Colorado will determine if this was a poor decision or not.
To use Jefe’s term, let the “ballet” begin…
Gettysburg, PA
Chevy Duramax, Northstar ArrowI think therein lies the rub. How does one ride comfortably when empty, yet offer an acceptable ride quality when fully loaded given the differences can be so extreme in comparison to passenger vehicles?
Difference in air bag sizing was well known in motorhomes and usually broken down to bigger bags offering more comfort and small bags offering better handling, however the bag pressures were not adjustable so that factor would add a wild card to the generalities for truck campers.
On the truck sites there are many comments about the new model Fords Super Duties having softer rear springs so a considerable amount of sag is endemic when fully loaded. Perhaps the change was done to address the “buckboard when empty” situation? In my own experience I found asking an aftermarket manufacturer for recommendations always resulted in suggestions to add multiples of whatever product they happened to be offering, although my own preference is to consider suggestions than make changes one at a time based on information gathered from multiple sources. 🙁
Maybe all we can do is try to find the best compromise based on our own individual preferences. 🙂
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCAgreed, but that is all we really do. There is no common agreement about much of anything when it comes to components. Name any components and some folks love it and some folks hate it. If it were cut and dry, discussions about sway and handling would be a paragraph long. Instead they go on for thread after thread in multiple forums.
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCHere’s one link of several that popup regarding matching the Host Mammoth to the trucks they selected. https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29639943.cfm
Like most topics there is some debate and lots of opinions. Personally I think you will be fine. You can always decide on aftermarket modes once you have it.
And I agree. I would make different choices in truck models than some folks, but I think that may reflect the struggle between having an easy riding daily driver with an empty bed and the desire to haul a big camper occasionally.
My two cents
Steve
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SC
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