Home Forums Truck Camper Adventure Forum LiFe Po4 Batteries???

  • This topic has 18 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by Anonymous.
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    • #30497
      Gary
      Participant

      From what I have read the Lithium Batteries will not work in the Cold Country here in Stanley Idaho where many many days and nights are in the Minus F. Degree temps. Wonder if anyone has experience with them in COLD temps???

      GARY

    • #30516
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’m no expert here but I think it depends on whether the batteries are mounted inside the camper where temperature is controlled or elsewhere in an unheated compartment. I believe the lower limit charging temp is at 32degF, hopefully someone else will chime in with a few more details…

    • #30587
      Gary
      Participant

      Yep, that is what I have read…It’s too cold for them here in Stanley Idaho.

      Thanks,
      Gary

    • #30605
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Heres some interesting info on Lithium – check the spec’s and the manual tabs.

      I’d need to know more though – though it has a built-in BMS, it’s not clear to me if I’d need a special charger or not, and the solar output and alternator to camper voltage may need a modification device as well..From what I can tell they will continue to discharge below 32degF, but cannot be recharged until above that temp…What is especially favorable is that they can be discharged down to almost 100% DOD, and still maintain an acceptable voltage output, thus one of these is roughly equivalent to two same sized wet-cells at about 1/4 the overall weight, but will last over 4,000 charging cycles versus roughly only 300-500 for wet-cells…

      https://www.aimscorp.net/lithium-battery-12v-100ah-lifepo4.html

    • #30664
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I got this info today from Battle Born Lithium Bsttery Mfg:

      Temperature
      High temperature: > 135F The BMS will not allow a charging or discharging current.
      Low temperature: < 25F The BMS will not allow a charging current. Charging current will be allowed again at 32F. We recommend not to use the batteries in temperatures under -4F

      Cold weather storage
      Storage temperature range -10F to 140F. We recommend bringing the battle born batteries to a 100% charge and then disconnecting them completely for storage. After 6 months in storage you should still have 75-80% charged batteries.
      Storing batteries in subzero weather(-15 or more) has the potential to crack the abs and more importantly could causes a faster loss of capacity, in some cases drastically more than the typical 2-4% per month loss.
      Charging our lithium batteries in cold weather
      We have an adhesive backed heating wrap that runs off of a 12 v source and works very well. It has a temperature sensor that allows it to turn on at 34F and stays on until the temperature rises above 45F.
      Heating wrap draws 30 watts/2.5-3 amps and is 3/16 of an inch thick.

      And FWIW, this specific to my camper:

      Phil,

      Compatibility has two sides, the power and voltage ratings of the batteries and the requirements and specs for whichever device you are using with the batteries.

      Our batteries will allow 100 amps continuous, 200 amps for a 30 second surge and ½ second for higher loads.
      Two of our batteries will give you 200 useable amps of power at 12 volts.

      The inverter will run well off of any 12 volt source and our batteries are a superior 12 volt source. The charging side of your inverter can deliver 100 amps(which is just fine for our batteries) as long as the charger reaches anywhere from 14.2 to 14.4 volts. You said it was a programmable charger so this will not be a problem.

      Your solar charge controller is compatible because it can be set to our charging recommendations:
      Bulk/absorb 14.2 – 14.6 Volts
      float 13.6 Volts or lower
      No equalization(or set it to 14.4v), no temperature compensation and absorption time is 20 minutes per battery(if its an option).

      Not sure about your PWM charger because we don’t have the specs, again the agm mode will work if its an option but if you give us the model # then we could look at the manual and check for compatibility.

      Your progressive dynamics (9200 series) 45a converter is not made for lithium charging and it will only stay in the 13.6 volt mode because of the higher voltage of a lithium battery. The way around this is to manually put it into boost mode with the pendant. This will bring the charging voltage up to the 14.4 volts required to properly charge the batteries.

      So compatibility is a two way street and the internal bms and the charging sources both have a role to play in this.

      We would be happy to help with any other questions or clarifications on how our batteries or the charging methods work. Give us a call anytime and thanks again!

      Jesse Asay
      775-221-8892

    • #30711
      Don
      Participant

      Phil, I find that info disappointing but not shocking. As with most thing that are new and improved over last years model (Lead-acid) it rarely lives up to the hype.

      I have an almost 15-year-old Odessey Extreme Battery, Grp 31. Its been in 6 cars and trucks, in my TC for 6 years and is not being used to power electric signs and lights for my wife’s business at night. I have 2 others that have been in my TC for 2 years, and my 5th wheel for 4 years.

      They charge hot, cold, solar or plugin…Cost $350 each.

      Don’t get me wrong, my career as an engineer was primarily in R&D, I live and breathe on the very bleeding edge. I think it’s safe to say these are early generations of Lith batteries, I suspect these challenges will be overcome.

      Don
      US Army Retired
      2019 F 350 CC-LB King Ranch
      Hill Country of Texas

    • #30746
      Dumb Mick
      Participant

      A good friend is a CalTech EE who is famous in the electric car world. Around town he drives an old Civic his company converted to a plug-in. He wouldn’t have it if he didn’t live in California (where the batts don’t freeze). His road trip vehicle? A Vanagon! HaHaHa!

      It’s good to be a n00b - so I can aspire to be just stoopid.

      Monrovia, CA

    • #30772
      Don
      Participant

      A good friend is a CalTech EE who is famous in the electric car world. Around town he drives an old Civic his company converted to a plug-in. He wouldn’t have it if he didn’t live in California (where the batts don’t freeze). His road trip vehicle? A Vanagon! HaHaHa!

      I have seen that, not sure where maybe PopSci or PopMech mags Youtube??? He has made the news.

      You can do a lot of things in a bubble, but it often does not scale to mass use…

      Don
      US Army Retired
      2019 F 350 CC-LB King Ranch
      Hill Country of Texas

    • #30930
      Pat Davitt
      Participant

      Yes, Lithium batteries are a new technology and they behave differently than Lead Acid. But they have overriding advantages such as, weight, space, and power production. A Lithium NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) that is rated at 5KWH only weighs 63 lbs. That’s equivalent to a 12V 400AH lead acid battery bank that weighs four to five times as much and has a cycle life that is four to five times shorter.

      Do Lithium batteries require different supporting devices, and are they more temperature restricted? Yes, but I my opinion it’s worth it.

      I agree the Lithium technology is only going to get better, and hopefully less expensive in the future. But, it’s here to stay.

      Pat

    • #31168
      Chuck
      Participant

      Has anyone tried Silicone Salt Batteries? They have a lot of the Lithium characteristics, (except they are heavy), and can charge at very low temps. Way better price, too. A fellow TC’er in BC just installed them, and was impressed at how quickly they can charge. Only info I have is found at http://www.siliconebatteries.ca/

      2012 F350, 6.7L SRW
      2015 Alaskan 8.5 Cabover

    • #31171
      Gary
      Participant

      Those Silicone Salt Batteries look and sound ideal except a 150 Amp 12 volt Battery weighs 101 pounds…two in Parallel would be a killer weight wise…..Darn if only they were the weight of LiFe Po4 batteries. The Lithium Ion batteries weight Savings is awesome…..but I live in country too cold for them…Guess I’ll just have to stick with my AGM’s

      Gary

    • #31172
      Don
      Participant

      Those Silicone Salt Batteries look and sound ideal except a 150 Amp 12 volt Battery weighs 101 pounds…two in Parallel would be a killer weight wise…..Darn if only they were the weight of LiFe Po4 batteries. The Lithium Ion batteries weight Savings is awesome…..but I live in country too cold for them…Guess I’ll just have to stick with my AGM’s
      Gary

      This is called the FINE PRINT Gotcha. I spent a good deal of my career in R&D. I LEARNED early on to ask where are the GOTCHAS. Li Batteries are great, unless it gets cold or hot. Problem to be solved and I have done a lot of that, but one has to be wary…there is no free lunch or magic potions. Right now my Lead Acid Odessy Extremes are still the leader the pack ALL things considered.

      Early on in my career:
      YES WE CAN DO THAT Sir…OK Great then SHOW ME!

      I spent just over $12 MILLION of your money to fix the issue after I opened my mouth and said ‘yes we can do that’.

      Don
      US Army Retired
      2019 F 350 CC-LB King Ranch
      Hill Country of Texas

    • #31758
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      One big advantage I see to Li compared to wet cells is that the voltage stays relatively constant throughout most of the discharge phase, which is great for inductive loads like motors and air conditioners…FWIW, on another site I stumbled across this sage empirical advice regarding Lithium:

      https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-happy/

    • #31762
      ardvark
      Participant

      This discussion has been helpful as I am always hesitant to pay for the newest and greatest given prices usually plummet after the initial introductions. The way we use our camper, I don’t see the return for coin invested for Li+. For now I think we will just stick with a quality AGM. Still juggling the old standard of 6-volt golf cart deep cycles in series versus 12-volts in parallel. 🙂

      Steve and Andra
      2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
      Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
      2019 Northstar Laredo SC

    • #32547
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      FWIW I sent an email to Battle born today to ask about the BMS System and was told that the BMS is a voltage only monitoring device, thus control of charging current is set by the charging source, and that for a 100amp Li battery the charging amps should be no more than 50-60a (preferably C 0.5 or less) to extend the lifespan of the battery.

    • #32585
      Mello Mike
      Keymaster

      We’ve only had our LiFePO4 batteries for a few months but we’re sold. We’ve essentially doubled the size of our battery compartment by going with them. Lots of other bennies too which I detailed in the TCA Blog.

      Going Lithium: LiFePO4 Batteries For the Truck Camper Adventure Rig

    • #32589
      ardvark
      Participant

      I like the advantages, but have no overriding need for them so will wait a bit and see what happens to the price and what else might come along. I wonder how many others are in the same boat.

      Steve and Andra
      2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
      Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
      2019 Northstar Laredo SC

    • #32590
      Don
      Participant

      I like the advantages, but have no overriding need for them so will wait a bit and see what happens to the price and what else might come along. I wonder how many others are in the same boat.

      The upgrade to LiFe package on the Host Mammoth is $15,000 option (Batteries, solar etc).

      $15k is more than a pocket full of reality and while it provides a superior solution at that price point it is limited to a very few. I look forward to the day that WE can afford it, till then I will have to go with El Cheapo…

      Don
      US Army Retired
      2019 F 350 CC-LB King Ranch
      Hill Country of Texas

    • #32648
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      It seems that the folks at Host see the solar and Li upgrade as a huge profit center – another good reason to just DIY.

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