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Just passing this along. I just got off the phone with tech support at Lifeline batteries as I am thinking about using their batteries in my NorthStar which has the battery box unvented under the dinette seat.
I was asking about charging profiles, etc. and brought up the issue of venting AGM batteries, a topic that has been widely debated in some forums.
His position is all batteries regardless of design require venting and no other electrical component in the same compartment as the battery/batteries. Hum.
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCHow does a “sealed ” battery vent itself ? I had an AGM battery in a small area in our Eureka TC cabin and never noticed anything whatsoever coming from anywhere on the battery. We lived with this set up for about a year.
This battery was charged by the converter, by the truck’s alternator and occasionally by our Honda EU2000i.
Neil & Yoly
2016 Ram 2500HD Tradesman, 2WD Crew Cab, 6.4L Hemi
2018 Travel Lite 840 SBRX
Honda EU2000iOkay, please bear in mind I am just the messenger.
His statement was that as long as nothing goes wrong with the charging system the battery will not vent. However, in the even the converter or inverter/charger goes nuts and charges at too high a voltage the battery will vent hydrogen and given it proximity to things electrical could cause an explosion. He said he knows it is being done, but it is incorrect.
I have heard this same type of statement voiced on other sites, but this is the first time I have called a battery manufacturer to ask directly about it.
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCTechnically speaking the manufacturer’s advice is absolutely correct, and from my perspective what he is saying must be said because of liability reasons…
So as with most other day to day risk we endure in life it usually boils down to a matter of possibilities versus likelihood…
I recently posted about a lady distracted on a cell phone who then crossed over the center lane line and hit my rear dually and tore off the camper jack…Just another case of risk (or possibilities) versus likelihood…It was 100% her fault, but admittedly I reluctantly assumed some of this risk exposure simply by driving on a public highway…Much safer to just stay home, eh!!
Truth is that try as we might a risk free world does not exist…Often, the best plan to mitigating risk is to adopt a mindset of operational or situational awareness that a known potential hazard could develop and plan out a contingency accordingly…This is why we wear seatbelts…
Nor is Lithium risk free…the possibility exist that the BMS might someday go south, but a good contingency (rather than flying blind…) is to regularly monitor voltages by investing in a high quality battery status monitor…
Personally, me choose to closely monitor…
It always amuses me to tell young whippersnappers how the VW Beetle had their battery inside the cabin, under the back seat. And these were the old style batteries, with caps you could unscrew to check/add water!
Regards
John
I don't like to make plans. They cause the word "PREMEDITATED" to get used in court!
DON'T FEED THE VULTURES!
My Body is a Temple! Ancient, Crumbling, Probably Cursed . . .It always amuses me to tell young whippersnappers how the VW Beetle had their battery inside the cabin, under the back seat. And these were the old style batteries, with caps you could unscrew to check/add water!
Had one of those while in college. Don’t forget the gasoline fired heater under the front bonnet (not hood, the hood was over the engine in the rear).
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCTechnically speaking the manufacturer’s advice is absolutely correct, and from my perspective what he is saying must be said because of liability reasons…
So as with most other day to day risk we endure in life it usually boils down to a matter of possibilities versus likelihood…
I recently posted about a lady distracted on a cell phone who then crossed over the center lane line and hit my rear dually and tore off the camper jack…Just another case of risk (or possibilities) versus likelihood…It was 100% her fault, but admittedly I reluctantly assumed some of this risk exposure simply by driving on a public highway…Much safer to just stay home, eh!!
Truth is that try as we might a risk free world does not exist…Often, the best plan to mitigating risk is to adopt a mindset of operational or situational awareness that a known potential hazard could develop and plan out a contingency accordingly…This is why we wear seatbelts…
Nor is Lithium risk free…the possibility exist that the BMS might someday go south, but a good contingency (rather than flying blind…) is to regularly monitor voltages by investing in a high quality battery status monitor…
Personally, me choose to closely monitor…Phil,
I agree with everything you say, but here is the thing. I think when we see a manufacturer doing something or stating something, we assume there is no risk. That is what is happening with AGM batteries in RVs. I suspect the actual risk of fire or explosion approaches zero, but batteries don’t require much of a vent. I suspect the camper manufacturers believe as we do.
I just want to have the choice of picking my risks whenever possible. I surfed the web last night under “battery venting in boats”, a place where owners do everything they can to avoid fire because of the obvious risk and they don’t quibble – everything gets vented.
And, if it does happen in a camper in which the manufacturer did not provide a vented location and the legal eagles get wind of it, I have no clue how they could mount a defense.
My two cents
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCMy intent was not to dismiss your otherwise valid concern – yes folks should be aware…
I have been using Optima AGMS in my boat. 3 12volt in parallel in closed compartment for 3 years. Charging about every 2-3 days during summer. Only open the bottom at year end to disconnect for storage. Never had any problems.
And hopefully never will. As noted earlier on in this thread, as long as everything is working as it should problems are very rare. However, individual experience is no guarantee there is no risk. 🙂
Ardvark
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCGreg,
I agree, however, since the several of the battery manufactuers call for venting, using their product as intended means with venting. You know from the first post I started this thread based on my discussion with a very well known battery supplier who was absolute in his statement to me that all AGMs require venting and my only purpose was to pass that information on. AGMs will vent in extreme situations. Your battery manufacturer in discussion with a member in another forum agreed Optima batteries should be vented.
Here is an example that I experienced. A number of years ago I purchased a diesel motorhome with a large battery bank and a horse of a inverter/charter and what I did not know was the dealer’s tech, without checking, set the charger to “Equalization” which I discovered on my arrival with the batteries gassing huge clouds of gas out of the motorhome bay. Certainly an rarity, but crazy things happen.
I presonally am not the safety police and am not trying to mandate what anyone else should do. Just passing on information. 🙂
Steve
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCWhen used with a properly regulated constant voltage charging system (such as an alternator), the OPTIMA will not emit hydrogen gas. However, gassing can occur when charging at excessive voltage levels or in extreme high-temperature conditions. In automotive applications, this typically will not happen if the alternator/regulator stays below 15 volts.
As intended.
When used with a properly regulated constant voltage charging system (such as an alternator), the OPTIMA will not emit hydrogen gas. However, gassing can occur when charging at excessive voltage levels or in extreme high-temperature conditions. In automotive applications, this typically will not happen if the alternator/regulator stays below 15 volts.
As intended.
Totally agree all are safe as long as charging equipment works as intended as the Optima website says, however here is a more extensive quote from the Optima site in the section where they answer owner’s questions.
“Mary, our batteries are AGM (absorbed glass mat) lead-acid batteries in a SPIRALCELL design. They are not gel batteries, so unfortunately, we cannot offer advice on how to mount gel batteries safely. However, we can offer advice on properly-mounting our batteries. Any lead-acid battery can vent fumes that are both flammable toxic in extreme situations, so for that reason, we always encourage people mounting batteries in enclosed locations, to make sure they are properly-vented to the outside air. In fact, our D27M D31M BLUETOP® batteries both come with provisions for attaching vent tubes to the outside air. Our batteries can also be mounted in a variety of orientations, although we do not recommend mounting them upside down. If you do mount one of our batteries on it’s side, we encourage you to consider mounting it securely, with the vent ports oriented on the top side of the battery, making sure the terminals are covered and protected from coming in contact with any metal objects.”
Now again I am not trying to get anyone to do anything. Just providing information. What I do wish is manufacturers would stop cutting corners and install compartment vents. 🙂
Ardvark
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCI find it interesting how you appear to be more concerned about rare potential off gassing than on your other thread Comments about truck weight ratings more often being to reported to low for potential legal reasons. That it could be OK to overload the specs, on a daily basis.
I do agree that both truck and rv manfacturers need to be more transparent about how they report weights. It is all mumbo jumbo.
By the way which weight rating would you follow. The lower camper certification weight or the higher pillar payload weight?
Hi Greg,
Yeah, I don’t know. I just find the whole situation in the RV world to be a mess. I am completely in favor of manufacturer transparency; what end users do with it is up to them.
I believe the risks with AGMs venting is likely to be exceedingly low. If not, I am sure we would have heard of lawsuits related to venting long ago. I have only witnessed one case of gassing and that was when an owner with a high dollar inverter/charger set the charger to “equalize”, which the batteries clearly could not handle, so I guess that makes about once every 30 years. 🙂
As to my certificate weight. I don’t know it. We bought our truck used, however I know on the Ford site some folks have said their truck did not have one right out the showroom door so I don’t know if ours was lost or never was. I do have our CAT scale receipts when we are ready to travel fully loaded and we just squeak under on our rear axle, front has plenty to spare.
Do I think the majority of folks run over their sticker weights? Absolutely. Do I worry about it? Not at all. The reality as I see it again is if failures due to overloading were as common as folks doing it, we would be reading about it daily.
I do get really tired of manufacturers and sales people looking for ways to dump any liability issue back on the shoulders of their customers and that pretty well sums up my push for transparency. 🙂
Ardvark
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCI had the original papers on our truck showing the camper option so that part was okay. We just didn’t have the glove box paper. We actually have plow springs in the front and we had the rear camper sway bar until I upgraded it.
First trip to a truck camper lot and truck campers at the time was almost all they did and the first thing they said was “your truck can handle anything on the lot”. Some multislide Lances there along with Big Foot non-slides, single rear wheel. I don’t think so.
A few years back when I was still an RVDA member, I was talking with the sales manager for Lance in Las Vegas at the National RVDA Convention and I asked what he thought about weights. What he said to me and this is an almost direct quote as I remember it “everything we make should go on a dually”. Now I am not saying his position was not extreme, just saying.
I keep pushing for transparency so buyers know what the ratings and recommendations are and why. What they do with that information is up to them, but at least they don’t have to turn over every rock or struggle with the fine print to find out! 🙂
Ardvark
Steve and Andra
2012 F350 6.2 gasser SRW LB
Fab Fours front and rear in case we run into a rhino
2019 Northstar Laredo SCSeems like a lot of cross currents going on here. Phil has the best perspective. I’ll add one more thing about AGM batteries. Our 2020 Northstar Laredo SC does have a pair of group 31 AGM’s hidden under the cushion of the seating area. They are NOT strapped down because no one gets that off camber or out of level as much as we do. There is a 1″x1″ strip of wood around the battery base that is supposed to hold them to the side, in place. On our recent ARBORGEDDON Adventure both batteries had slid or bounced out of the 1×1 surround, obviously from going downhill at an extreme angle which pulled on the crimp connected wiring enough to open the circuit from the solar panels and allow no power to the camper. I’ve gotten the batts back in position but need a very sturdy tie down to keep them corralled. These are so heavy the tie down needs to keep them from falling out if the camper is upside down, like the pictures of the poor guy and his new black hardcore $150K camper on here.Of course, if the picture is that decimating, batteries are the least of your worries.
jefe2020 Ford F-350 XLT FX4 4WD SRW SB SC 7.3L Godzilla Gas TorqShift 10R140 397 amps dual Alt dual batts Frnt Dana 60; Rr Dana M275 E-locker 4.30's 4580/4320/4066# payload 7243# curb wt. 11,300# GVWR 5-er prepped. 2020 Northstar Laredo SC, 12v compressor fridge, cassette, 320w Solar sub zero insulation.
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